SANJAY AGGARWAL VISIT OF PUNE JUL / AUG 2010 - Wgcdr Shashikant - Picasa Web Albums: "- Sent using Google Toolbar"
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Nadi Predictions is a unique method in written on palm leaves in the Tamil language. What is Naadi?, How it is seen?, Are they real?, Can I solve my problems?, Where can I find nearby Naadi center?, Fees?, Rationalist's views, Naadi Lovers center, Naadi palm leaf Databank,
Tuesday, September 7, 2010
Monday, September 6, 2010
How skeptis cheat the reder! read - The 'Exact Science' Of Nadi Jothidam | Nirmukta
How skeptics cheat the readers? read - Red ink remarks are mine.
The 'Exact Science' Of Nadi Jothidam | Nirmukta: "First I was asked where I came from. When I replied Udupi, he said that had been accurately mentioned in his leaf. The next question was whether I was a Brahmin or not. When I asked what the leaf said, I was told non-brahmin. When I said yes, he made the very earth-shaking declaration that I was a non vegetarian! I asked him to go on and he said that both my parents were alive. Since, both of them are no more, he said that the inference had been probably arrived at, by the presence of their souls on earth! I had made no attempts to send them to heaven by performing the required rituals. I was also informed that my father had been a government servant and had retired. That would have been news to him if he were alive. He had never worked for anyone else in his lifetime. Then I was told that I too had been in government service and ha retired (that last part is not a very difficult conclusion going by my age!) The Pais of Manipal who had been my employers at Manipal University would be glad to hear of this elevation in their status from an influential family to a government organization. The next statement was about the day of my birth and I was told that I had been born on a Monday and under Makara Rashi. When I replied I did not know whether either of them was true or false, I was told that I am a Muslim!
Then I was told the following:
1. I owned the house in which I live (true) and so did my father (false).
2. I had two wives (I haven’t met the second one yet)
3. I had two children from my deceased first wife and for their sake married for the second time. I misled him here saying that my first wife was not deceased, but I had divorced because she had no issue. The children were of my second one. The interpreter of Nadi fell into the trap and agreed with me. He also said that there was a small error in his reading.
4. I had two brothers and one sister. This is true but when I said it was wrong he changed it to one brother and one sister.
5. My fathers name starts with one of the dozen alphabets listed. When I said no, he followed with a dozen other alphabets. When I replied in the negative again, he was flabbergasted.
About thirty minutes had passed and getting tired of this, I told the Nadi reader that most of what he had said was nonsense. He got angry at this and told me that I should have been honest with him. I replied that he should have known about this because his own Nadi leaf would have contained the information that his powers would be tested on that day. When I asked him whether I had to pay for all the rubbish that he had told, he flounced out of his own establishment with the Nadi leaves pertaining to my life under his arm, leaving us there. After waiting for a few minutes for him to come back, we came out. By then I had gathered how the so called Nadi fortune tellers manage to make ‘accurate predictions’ of the past and future.
The leaves are just a prop for them. They are covered in scribbles which only the Nadi reader can supposedly interpret. The information about the client is gathered by the following methods:No if minute study is conducted the names of the persons could be read by Tami experts. This means Nayak has not bothered to get palm leaf read by any of the expert Tamilian.
* 1. The client and those accompanying them are asked to wait until the proper leaves are found. During this time they are asked to wait in a room which is wired and the conversation is spied upon. Has Nayak exposed this while he was with his supported? No. Why not ? Because he is not interested to expose the truth but to make reader believe that he has exposed by merely visiting Nadi center.
* 2. The interpreter is a clever ‘cold-reader‘. He notes the reactions of the client and those who accompany them, to check the accuracy of the predictions.
If so for many Tamil seekers no interpreter is required then who becomes cold reader?
* 3. Pointed questions are asked to ‘predict’ the background of the clients- questions like caste, religion etc. That is not prediction in any case,
* 4. Names and other specific details are rooted out by trying to guess the first alphabet of the word followed by the second one and so on by a process of elimination. By making this allegation of guess work, nothing is proved.
* 5. Most of the information is provided by the client from our reactions to yes or no questions or from subconscious body signals. In my case, since I am quite experienced in providing misleading body signals and since those accompanying me had no knowledge about my personal matters, the reader was not in a position to acquire any knowledge about me by this method, thus playing into the trap.
How thew name of the person be guessed by body signal ? Can Nayak give a demo by guessing someone's name?
Once the Swami realized that he was being misled and that I was a hard nut to crack, he backed out. So much for the ‘accurate science’ of Nadi Jothidam!
In fact Nayak backed out. He should have followed till the leaf is found out if not in that center some other center, in Vaideeshwaran village. There are many centers. Even if had he not found out his own palm leaf he should have tried to get note book of the clients available in the center randomly. and tried to read the names of the concerned persons by the pother Naadi readers. Why did he not do? Because he is not interested to expose the Naadi phenomena but to pretend that he has exposed the secrets of naadi reading. In this way he has exposed and got trapped himself of doing nothing and trumpeted much,
- Sent using Google Toolbar"
The 'Exact Science' Of Nadi Jothidam | Nirmukta: "First I was asked where I came from. When I replied Udupi, he said that had been accurately mentioned in his leaf. The next question was whether I was a Brahmin or not. When I asked what the leaf said, I was told non-brahmin. When I said yes, he made the very earth-shaking declaration that I was a non vegetarian! I asked him to go on and he said that both my parents were alive. Since, both of them are no more, he said that the inference had been probably arrived at, by the presence of their souls on earth! I had made no attempts to send them to heaven by performing the required rituals. I was also informed that my father had been a government servant and had retired. That would have been news to him if he were alive. He had never worked for anyone else in his lifetime. Then I was told that I too had been in government service and ha retired (that last part is not a very difficult conclusion going by my age!) The Pais of Manipal who had been my employers at Manipal University would be glad to hear of this elevation in their status from an influential family to a government organization. The next statement was about the day of my birth and I was told that I had been born on a Monday and under Makara Rashi. When I replied I did not know whether either of them was true or false, I was told that I am a Muslim!
Then I was told the following:
1. I owned the house in which I live (true) and so did my father (false).
2. I had two wives (I haven’t met the second one yet)
3. I had two children from my deceased first wife and for their sake married for the second time. I misled him here saying that my first wife was not deceased, but I had divorced because she had no issue. The children were of my second one. The interpreter of Nadi fell into the trap and agreed with me. He also said that there was a small error in his reading.
4. I had two brothers and one sister. This is true but when I said it was wrong he changed it to one brother and one sister.
5. My fathers name starts with one of the dozen alphabets listed. When I said no, he followed with a dozen other alphabets. When I replied in the negative again, he was flabbergasted.
About thirty minutes had passed and getting tired of this, I told the Nadi reader that most of what he had said was nonsense. He got angry at this and told me that I should have been honest with him. I replied that he should have known about this because his own Nadi leaf would have contained the information that his powers would be tested on that day. When I asked him whether I had to pay for all the rubbish that he had told, he flounced out of his own establishment with the Nadi leaves pertaining to my life under his arm, leaving us there. After waiting for a few minutes for him to come back, we came out. By then I had gathered how the so called Nadi fortune tellers manage to make ‘accurate predictions’ of the past and future.
The leaves are just a prop for them. They are covered in scribbles which only the Nadi reader can supposedly interpret. The information about the client is gathered by the following methods:No if minute study is conducted the names of the persons could be read by Tami experts. This means Nayak has not bothered to get palm leaf read by any of the expert Tamilian.
* 1. The client and those accompanying them are asked to wait until the proper leaves are found. During this time they are asked to wait in a room which is wired and the conversation is spied upon. Has Nayak exposed this while he was with his supported? No. Why not ? Because he is not interested to expose the truth but to make reader believe that he has exposed by merely visiting Nadi center.
* 2. The interpreter is a clever ‘cold-reader‘. He notes the reactions of the client and those who accompany them, to check the accuracy of the predictions.
If so for many Tamil seekers no interpreter is required then who becomes cold reader?
* 3. Pointed questions are asked to ‘predict’ the background of the clients- questions like caste, religion etc. That is not prediction in any case,
* 4. Names and other specific details are rooted out by trying to guess the first alphabet of the word followed by the second one and so on by a process of elimination. By making this allegation of guess work, nothing is proved.
* 5. Most of the information is provided by the client from our reactions to yes or no questions or from subconscious body signals. In my case, since I am quite experienced in providing misleading body signals and since those accompanying me had no knowledge about my personal matters, the reader was not in a position to acquire any knowledge about me by this method, thus playing into the trap.
How thew name of the person be guessed by body signal ? Can Nayak give a demo by guessing someone's name?
Once the Swami realized that he was being misled and that I was a hard nut to crack, he backed out. So much for the ‘accurate science’ of Nadi Jothidam!
In fact Nayak backed out. He should have followed till the leaf is found out if not in that center some other center, in Vaideeshwaran village. There are many centers. Even if had he not found out his own palm leaf he should have tried to get note book of the clients available in the center randomly. and tried to read the names of the concerned persons by the pother Naadi readers. Why did he not do? Because he is not interested to expose the Naadi phenomena but to pretend that he has exposed the secrets of naadi reading. In this way he has exposed and got trapped himself of doing nothing and trumpeted much,
- Sent using Google Toolbar"
good to be a skeptic, but it is not good to be a cheap stake skeptic.
Duncan Gill referred us to an article in The Australian about a man in India who claims he hasn't
The award must be shared with the BBC, CNN, Der Spiegel, China Daily, and the Hindustan Times. All report that Jani says he survives without food or water because of a hole in his palate and that his followers call him "mataji" or goddess. He also says he has lived in caves since he was eight, so how he attracted a following is not known, nor is it clear how a man who lives in caves and doesn't eat grew in size from a child to an adult as if he were an eater.
reader comments (11 May 2010):
Dear Sirs,
I am a skeptic and a strong atheist. This feedback refers to the report on Prahlad Jani. I, too, do not believe such stories; there are many in India.
What I object to is the language used in the report. The meaning of names (given in brackets) is wrong and in very bad taste. There is no need for such ad hominems (if my English is correct). Given below as the instances:
Mr. Jani (whose name means Lying Through My Holy Palate): Mr. Jani's first name is Prahlad. It is the name of one of the greatest devotees of Lord Vishnu in hinduism, and it does not mean 'Lying Through My Holy Palate'. Prahlad possibly means 'first born'.
Neurologist Sudhir Shah (whose name means I Am Too Smart to Be Fooled): Sudhir means 'one of great patience', it does not mean 'I Am Too Smart to Be Fooled'.
Ahmedabad means City of the Credulous: Ahmedabad was founded in 1411 by Sultan Ahmed Shah and is named after him.
Gujarat (which means Gotcha!): Gujarat is possibly derived from the name of a hephthalite tribe (White Huns), whom the Indian chroniclers called 'Gurjaras'. "Chinese chronicles they were originally a tribe living to the north of the Great Wall and were known as Hoa or Hoa-tun. Elsewhere they were called White Huns. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephthalites)
It is good to be a skeptic, but it is not good to be a cheap stake skeptic. With regards,
Yours sincerely,
Amar Nath Reu
RTC replies: Thanks for the "corrections." Humor is a matter of taste. What I find funny, you find insulting. Fair enough. Making fun of names may be in bad taste, but it is not a logical fallacy (as the ad hominem is).
For more on Jani see Open-mindedness and Skepticism and Dr. Sudhir Shah and Prahlad Jani.
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